Supernatural: Sympathy for the Devil
Sep. 11th, 2009 10:19 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
regala_electraSo where does the line start? From the Winchester side (meaning that John would be a carrier for whatever it is that makes someone a vessel) or from the Campbells? Because from what we saw in The Rapture, it's passed on from parent to child. So. Who's on first, who's on second? Doesn't that mean that Sam's a vessel too or did Azazel's fuckery with the Psychic kids make Sam less vessel-y (scientific term)? Was the plot to seek out Psychic Kids a search to pollute potential vessels?
Why do I ask myself questions that Kripke would handwave away and say "A wizard did it!" BUT WHY WAS THE FLYING HORSE DIFFERENT IN THE NEXT SHOT? Tell me that, Xena.
Did the angels just guesstimate (wtf that shows up as an actual word) that Dean was the Michael's
Like, was Michael's vessel supposed to start the seal breaking fun times (look out for the loose seal!) and that's how they figured out who was the special sword of Michael? ("I'll take Swords for $200." "That's...'S'-Words.")
For funsies, let's speculate that Sam and Dean somehow manage to make it to the
Then Dean, horrified that they again fumbled the game and let Lucifer take over Sam's hotass body, says "totes mcgoat" to Michael and we get the most epic boyfight ever.
I bet you could sell DVDs of that fight.
Seriously, I need more explanations about that wot makes a vessel do the voodoo it does so well.
Can Dean only hear the dulcet tones of Michael because he seems to be a little Hard of Angelic Hearing. So is Sam, apparently. What's that all about?
I like how Kripke used almost the exact exchange in Galaxy Quest:
"I know it's not real."
"It's real."
"I knew it!"
Galaxy Quest did it better. I mean, Justin Long's character there helped the fuck out of the poor Galaxy Quest crew. Becky...delivered a message and kept touching Sam. Okay, that still cracks me up.
Hey remember when we found out that there are Secret Lucifer Sympathizers in the angelic army? Since, y'know, Uriel was axing (a question to) angels who didn't agree with the Down with Humans plan? Yeah, that's kind of a problem.
God's Away on Business, you guys. Either that or God's playing skee-ball. (God needs to be played by a woman. I approve of Cate Blanchett, FYI.)
The higher up angels has been manipulating this war from the get-go when they saw a shot to get at their old enemies. Screw the civilians (humans), they're just collateral damage.
Man. I love that the angels are totally assholes and that it seems that Zachariah and his crew have no fucking clue that there's a significant portion of the army pro-Lucifer.
You guys are screwed.
FYI is Michael just chilling like a villain up in heaven, hoping thatwhen the Winchester plans will go so wrong (oh, that'll never happen!) Dean will just have to suck it up and suck Michael up? Because. Seriously, only one vessel for him?
Man. You guys are lucky that Dean didn't die all the other times he died.
I kind of want to take Becky's fanfic and fill in the blanks of the story around the clavicle licking. I would have to throw in every fanfic cliché known to man.
Hey, I'm a horrible person.
Also, I miss writing full on porn. Thanks for reminding me I've been slacking off, Show!
I genuinely think the Trickster, in his Trickster-like way was trying to teach Sam a lesson. (For, you see, his one armed man couldn't show up so the Trickster did the next best thing by killing Dean a lot.)
Sam took the wrong lesson to heart. I thank him for it as his awesome S4 arc rebooted Lucifier v. 2.0.
Lucifer is looking pretty fascinating already. He's not doing bad stuff for bad reasons. He's mad at God for letting bad things happen. Clearly the solution is more violence.
Who pulled Sam and Dean out of that spot (that apparently did blow itself up good)? The Devil or God?
It would make sense for God to be able to restore an angel (hi, Castiel!).
Second part to the question, AKA the hard part: why?
I love the description of God in Good Omens. He's a cards dealer who smiles all the time. That's quite apt.
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Date: 2009-09-11 03:49 pm (UTC)Alsooo there is the whole deal with Castiel telling Dean in 4.01 that he "thought he was special" and could hear his true voice. AND THEN there is Alistair saying over and over that Dean left something of his back in Hell. WHAT DOES THAT MEEEAAAN. I think it all ties in with Dean's vessel-age, MMHMM.
LOLOL GALAXY QUEST. ♥
And I TOTES think that God had a hand in pulling Sam and Dean out of the convent and raising Castiel. I'm gonna have to rewatch (like, in the next five minutes actually, YAY) but didn't Zachariah almost pee his pants when Castiel said there was a higher threat to them? Maybe he did mean Lucifer, HMMM. But I took that to mean that WUH OH, BIG DADDY'S HOME AND SAW THE MESS YOU MADE IN HIS ABSENCE, ZACHARIAH. YOU IN BIG TROUBLE NOW. Or something. :D
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Date: 2009-09-11 04:08 pm (UTC)Also, just because it follows family lineage doesn't mean every kid gets it. However, I've been getting this feeling that Dean's being groomed to be an angelic vessel and Sam a demonic vessel for a long time. On the one hand, that would be one awesome epic fight. On the other hand...Dean and Sam wouldn't actually be present anymore, so...I don't know about that.
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Date: 2009-09-11 06:36 pm (UTC)Just from the show itself, the only thing we know about angelic vessel is that they're people who have something "in their blood" that makes them vessels, so I'd assume it would be any offspring. I mean, Jimmy only had one kid, so the Show hasn't told us one way or another if it's a first come first serve in the genetic lottery or something.
Now I'm curious if demons can possess vessels. If they can't, then no, Sam is definitely not vessel-material or the whole demon blood thing when he was a baby made him vunerable to demon attacks? Bah. Applying thinking to the show. Never ends well.
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Date: 2009-09-12 12:25 am (UTC)AND, since Lucifer is kinda sorta angel, kinda sorta demon, I think he could possess Sam, seeing as how they're both kinda "tainted." OOOH, fun thinky thoughts.
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Date: 2009-09-12 05:38 am (UTC)I'm just waiting to see if there's a distinction between Satan, Lucifer, and Beelzebub in this mythology or not.
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Date: 2009-09-12 05:36 am (UTC)who have something "in their blood"
Insofar as a genetic analogy works at all (as opposed to the more cultural meanings of something being "in your blood"), blood types are not always shared with parents. And if all children of vessels were also vessels...the entire world would be populated with vessels. In order for this to make any sense, it has to be some freaky rare recessive thing. I'm not sure what to make of Cas thinking Dean should be able to hear his voice (clearly indicating that angels can "see" this vessel marker), but being wrong.
Now I'm curious if demons can possess vessels.
Kind of interesting to note--Sam's been possessed. John's been possessed. Bobby's been possessed. Dean hasn't. Maybe they can't.
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Date: 2009-09-17 07:29 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-09-11 06:21 pm (UTC)Durrr I forgot that Alistair told Dean he'd left something in hell. HMMMM.
Galaxy Quest is one of the finest movies ever made.
I'm thinking it was God, yes, but I'm still pondering why God can be all "you're on a PLANE, bitch" and not like, rebanish Lucifer. I need the macro of that stair going into a wall that says WHERE ARE YOU GOING WITH THIS?
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Date: 2009-09-12 12:27 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-09-11 04:05 pm (UTC)Or so he says. He is the prince of lies, after all. I can't figure out if that whole speech was genuinely Lucifer's take or if it was just...brilliant manipulation. And I kind of like that ambiguity a whole lot.
Who pulled Sam and Dean out of that spot (that apparently did blow itself up good)? The Devil or God?
Also, who thought it was a good idea to move them from an exploding place to a crashing plane?
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Date: 2009-09-11 06:39 pm (UTC)Heh, now I'd like it really to be God, since he'd so have a messed up sense of humor to send them into that plane.
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Date: 2009-09-11 08:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-09-12 05:39 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-09-12 05:38 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-09-11 04:08 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-09-11 06:37 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-09-11 06:05 pm (UTC)I think that the prophecy mentioned sometime in Season 4 (the righteous man to fall who begins it will be the only one who can end it) and the fact that the demons were torturing John to get him to break in the same fashion; means that it's something that came from his father's side of the family. It makes sense, the dichotomy. Mary and Dean being so similar but she was on the demonic-child-bearer side, and John and Sam's similarities and yet John was the possible vessel and Sam was the demonic-child-born. And yes, I am implying that Sam would be able to carry a litter of demon kittens. I call the big one bitey.
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Date: 2009-09-11 06:39 pm (UTC)[citation needed]
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Date: 2009-09-11 06:53 pm (UTC)Sources:
"Marge vs. the Monorail." The Simpsons. Dan Castellaneta Perf., Rich Moore Dir. FOX, New York. 14 Jan 1993.
Electra, Regala. "Kittens, Brothers, and Cake: It's A Family Thing." oral is moral 12 Sep 2009.
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Date: 2009-09-11 07:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-09-11 07:15 pm (UTC)*crosses fingers for Drag!boys*
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Date: 2009-09-11 08:05 pm (UTC)nah, I need to put that one away. Seriously, I have several fics I need to have done so my conscience will be clear and that is too much of a fun one.
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Date: 2009-09-11 08:08 pm (UTC)I don't want michael to be a villain :( I really don't, it would actually kinda peev me off, because I understand the angels who are asshole ish and brought on apocolypse because they were there first and god preferred humans so now only the humans who make it through hell are worthy, aka constantine
and then we have the angels who have strayed from their bosses aka zach, and in turn kinda lost faith in god.
but then there's no good angels, which kinda sucks, 'cause demons are evil, so some good would be nice, hence my want for michael to be a bit more in the know ala god and why he's playing his cards close to his chess.
a foray into dogma would be good, or HDM?
aaaalso wondered about the vessel too...like was it always dean, which makes sense as dean's the only sibling without powers, since the only other demon kid that had a bro were twins and they both had gifts, so if dean was some pre-destined-vessel, then cool, and it throws even more light on the zach commanding castiel to bring dean out of hell because now that shit's in motion, they need the vessel above ground.
dude if lucifer jumps into sam we would actually have the sam vs dean the cw posters have been threatening since like s2 o.O and it could be two levels of betrayal. the bro's and then angel vs angel (esp if they do michael well if he ever makes appearance via dean)
and was just saying on another journal that jensen's mad skillz would be awesome as michael righteous and awesome
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Date: 2009-09-17 07:38 pm (UTC)HDM = His Dark Materials, yes? I always felt that series fell apart by the end of it and Pullman's, erm, issues with Narnia & organized religion overshadowed a lot of the more interesting elements. Not to say I don't love the series, I have it next to my Narnia series so they can duke it out on my bookshelf. :-)
Vessels seem to be a genetically granted trait but it seems like Michael's maaaaaybe had to go through extra trials to be deemed his? The mythology of this show has never been particularly strong although I kind of like that Dean basically had to get fucked around in life to reach his destiny of being COMPLETELY fucked over.
And somehow he had to not have died all those times he nearly could have in order to die and go to hell in kick off the end of days.
looks like I'm up shit creek again
Date: 2009-09-11 10:14 pm (UTC)I mean, what's so great about Nick? Hm? Sam is just as cute as Nick. Sam is just as smart as Nick. People totally like Sam just as much as they like Nick. And when did it become okay for one person to be the boss of everybody, huh? Because that's not what the apocalypse is about. We should totally just stab Nick!
AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH YES.
I would love, love, LOVE to see Jensen act as Dean-the-vessel. I want him to have an angel-off with Misha.
Re: looks like I'm up shit creek again
Date: 2009-09-17 07:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-09-12 12:06 am (UTC)It would make sense for God to be able to restore an angel (hi, Castiel!).
Second part to the question, AKA the hard part: why?
I like the idea that it was God that did it all. But somehow I think the Devil might have thrown Sam and Dean out, just because he wasn't ready to deal with them yet. Perhaps nobody can see his true form? Much like humans can't hear/see angels? And so he sent them away? Hrmmms.
Cas though, I'd bet on God being responsible, and why is the big question. HRMMMMS. Castiel is such a unique angel; I think he's got a purpose in all this too. I am so, so excited for Cas's story this season. I think it's going to be really interesting! Even though I know nothing about it! :D
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Date: 2009-09-17 07:41 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-09-12 01:03 am (UTC)Like, was Michael's vessel supposed to start the seal breaking fun times (look out for the loose seal!) and that's how they figured out who was the special sword of Michael? ("I'll take Swords for $200." "That's...'S'-Words.")
I would just like to say that I WHOLLY APPROVE of SNL!Sean Connery for the army of heaven. He can even be Michael. That would sure make Dean like him more. SHUCK ON IT, SHAMMY.
Can Dean only hear the dulcet tones of Michael because he seems to be a little Hard of Angelic Hearing. So is Sam, apparently. What's that all about?
So was Jimmy Novak. First time he heard Castiel's voice he got a seizure. I don't exactly get the whole Special People Can Hear Us, since Novak couldn't hear them either and Dean is just as special as he was.
Doesn't that mean that Sam's a vessel too or did Azazel's fuckery with the Psychic kids make Sam less vessel-y (scientific term)? Was the plot to seek out Psychic Kids a search to pollute potential vessels?
No, I think Azazel was looking for people just as special as heaven required, but he made them suceptible to hellish influence rather than heavenly. I don't doubt the fact that Sam is unable to carry an angel within him now that he has loads of demon blood in him. Castiel could barely shake his hand without going all germaphobic afterwards. And since Lucifer (strictly speaking) IS still an angel, Sam can't carry him either.
God needs to be played by a woman. I approve of Cate Blanchett, FYI.
IDK. To hear someone as phenomenal as Cate Blanchett say the lines of someone like Kripke (or heaven forbid, Sera Gamble) would likely to make me want to cover my ears for shame. But generally speaking, I'm all in for Cate Blanchett to play God somewhere. :D
Mystery Spot Taught Sam all the wrong lessons.
I am in full belief that had Sam had more episodes, Kripke wouldn't have any plotlines left.
Man. I love that the angels are totally assholes and that it seems that Zachariah and his crew have no fucking clue that there's a significant portion of the army pro-Lucifer.
You know, my angel lore is pretty rusty, but even I know that what SPN is attempting, mytharc-wise, is bizarre. It's almost as if Kripke wants to set the board for "OMG Michael totes had a jealousy attack and got Lucifer in Hell because NO ONE LOVES GOD MORE THAN HE DOES OMG", with the whole #WHERETHEHELLISGODONSPN.
In Good Omens, God is a card dealer of a game he invented and no one else knows the rules, and he smiles all the time. In Supernatural though, God seems to be a pool hustler who wears bollo ties and chews on a straw a lot instead of giving a fuck.
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Date: 2009-09-17 07:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-09-14 06:57 pm (UTC)Actually, I think neither John nor Mary or Sam are vessels. Dean is only able to be Micheal's vessel because he broke the first seal. Or something.
(At least that would explain why he can be a vessel at all, what with the not being able to see/hear Cas.)
It's all quite mysterious.
Who pulled Sam and Dean out of that spot (that apparently did blow itself up good)? The Devil or God?
I'm pretty sure it was God... (although the Devil would be interesting, wouldn't it?)
Second part to the question, AKA the hard part: why?
He got bored just watching the game from afar? You know, with being all powerful and shit and having to live forever the whole angel/demon-war-thingy is probably just something to entertain him. (Translated: NO IDEA. I trust Kripke to give us a good show though *g*)
Good Omens is probably the truest book ever written, simply because it has no answers where there are none. *lol* (Those this sentence make sense? O_o)
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Date: 2009-09-17 07:50 pm (UTC)It seems like vessels are passed on genetically but maybe the Vessel of Michael had to go through trials to be worthy?
Good Omens seems to answer everything.